Say, that the world sea will actually rise for 6 meters in 100 years.
How many Amazon size rivers do you need on Antarctica on average during all this time?
How many liters of water per second per one meter of Antartica’s shore does this mean?
Chatter:
http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/pcf/open_thread_august_21_august_27_2017/dweh
protokol2020 
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http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=surface+area+of+oceans+*+6m+%2F+100+years+in+liters%2Fsecond&x=0&y=0
http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=flow+of+the+Amazon+in+liters%2Fsecond&x=3&y=6
About three
Yes, three. Everybody knows, that there is no considerable river down there. But some, like Manfred from LessWrong says that those rivers are solid state rivers of ice sliding to the sea and melting there. Not necessary three Amazons, but 0.4. Which is the official estimation of about 2000 cubic kilometers of ice discharged into the ocean every year!
I don’t think so!
Thomas,
bos mogoce kaj napisal o tem. Se ti zdi stvar prelomna?
http://www.rtvslo.si/znanost-in-tehnologija/z-umetno-inteligenco-brali-mozgansko-aktivnost/430694
Well, you know me. I expect, that digital algorithms will be indistinguishable from meat-based algorithms in our heads. But not only for an eternal observer, but from the first person point of view as well.
Not only, that I expect “unbearably easy uploading”, I expect also “unbearably easy reloading”. Precisely via those learning algorithms. If a learning algorithm learns well enough how you think, this learning algorithm becomes you.
That’s my view. Perhaps I should write a post about why and how. At least, some will laugh. A few won’t.
Intresting, when will this happen in your opinion?
That, I will keep for myself for now. You see, it is very hard to discuss with people even in this Antarctica case when my position is a very common sense position, against some mainstream view, which is kind of crazy. Which in effect claims that there are solid state rivers on Earth. They are, but they are very slow, glacial pace slow. They don’t transfer a lot of water per second.
Sometimes, I do make apparently crazy statements, but only if I am quite sure that they are in fact solid, that they only look crazy for an untrained eye. The Yellowstone prevention is one example in which NASA came to my rescue recently. It doesn’t mean that I am right because of that, it only means that I don’t have to defend it anymore. They will do it for me.
But for this, NOBODY is coming to help me out. At not least until this service will be on the market.
What am I afraid of? Of a very long and extensive discussion about that. It is required to be a long and extensive discussion, to come to the common ground about something this unusual. I think about 1000 times as much discussion as with this damn Antarctica thing, where we are getting almost nowhere.
I agree that copy of you is you. Not only that, also a bad copy of you is you, if it has self awerness. I can also transform into you and still be me.
Yeah, well, Mr. Xy … you are much more advanced here than the average is. Which is (the average opinion) quite naive in this kind of questions. If they think in the terms of immortal soul, that is already a great success. People mostly operate under some NewAge bullshit, but that’s still isn’t the worst possibility.
I’ll tell you which is the worst of them all. “Every (wo)man is unique and unrepeatable creature determine yada, yada, yada …”.
That’s the current default I am not willing to argue with. Because they “can’t handle the truth”. Or even a hint of it.
Its not hard to understand this. Because it is a fact, that you and i are much more similar, that i am similar to myself, when i was baby.
It is intellectually easy enough perhaps. But it’s emotionally difficult. Just look at this Antartica affair, how difficult is to understand that it’s gaining snow and ice currently. Intellectually it’s more than simple. It’s extremely intellectually difficult if not impossible to understand the mainstream mantra of rapid melting -40 degrees ice.
But it’s so heart warming to be on the crazy academia’s side, that almost everybody believes that crap of large ice rivers down there. Who am I to blame them for that?
What I believe, or what you also seem to believe in relation to the consciousness, is a memetic hazard for a human. It’s perfectly logical, alright, but it’s a dangerous memetic hazard as well. It may soon enough become an important everyday matter, which also complicates life. I don’t care for Antarctica a lot, it’s just a curiosity really. But this consciousness thing, this is really important. The most important thing imaginable. But we don’t want millions to go crazy because of this. Especially because many are crazy already, even before they understand the matter.
Some are crazy as a consequence of their assumption that they have an immortal soul. Some are crazy because they assume that they don’t have it. If only they knew, how it really is …
What about those who never lived. Are they also me?
Take a subset of those who never lived. Only those, whose potential mother and father were born 1000 years or more apart. If the ancestors of the father (born earlier) have decided to have children a bit later in life, they could postpone his birth for 1000 years in let say 20000 years time. But they didn’t and these two people have never met and all their children are nonexistent.
How it looks from inside, the first person views if you are one of those? Just like it looks long before you are born.
Most people would say, yes, that’s me, who wasn’t even been born 200 years ago, that’s me. But if you ask them, if that still would be you, if the WWI and Spanish flu have never happened? Then, their logic breaks down. Then they know, that something is weird, but still, don’t know what.
But, it’s a considerable memetic hazard to understand this.
My grandfather was me, even before i was born! But those who were never born, they were not me, becouse they did not have self-awerness.
Born or not. Another instance of you. Or you under deep comma.
I am talking from my instance now. If that instance was not born it would not be me.
Me under deep coma is not me anymore. Whitout self-awerness it cant be me, because then also a stone is me.
Can a stone be me? Depends on what computation it makes.The stone named my head does the right ones, it seems. A stone needs to be enough complex, most rocks aren’t.
And a head in a coma might become self-aware again. The most toxic is that idea that the consciousness hasn’t any unique label. Toxic, but true. The consciousness just is, where it is, when it is.
Hm… now i am thinking like this.
Well i agree that i was my grandfather and he was me, when we were both alive.
But then he died. How can i still be him and he still me, when he is just an ash. How is that possible?
Yes if he somehow walked out of the grave, then again i would be him and he would be me.
What about protokol? Who is in and who is out?
Yeah i know the answer, consciousness is in, and no consciousness is out.
But still, is anybody missing the party there?
Imagine, you are bound to play out all the roles, for any human ever lived while (s)he is consciousness. (Which may not be as easy as we usually assume; perhaps we are all zombies to the age of 2 or more. Perhaps some remain so for the whole time, it’s hard to tell.)
The above scenario is indistinguishable from the real thing, for an observer who is conscious. For every observer who has ever been conscious.
Some of us think that this is the only logical solution. Besides of some immortal soul variants with the unique time-space stamp or something. That religion solution suffers from many other problems, but not from the pure inconsistency.
It’s crazy, but it makes a perfect sense if you think about.
It is very easy to imagine yourself at different times, like today and yesterday. But it’s not that hard to think about you in different places, as well. The whole mental memory environment is different, but so what.
I was astonished when learned, that this is quite an old idea. At least 100 years old.
Your question is equivalent to: “Whose memories are worth to preserve, which patterns are worth to be repeated over all the semi-eternity, on the TechnoJudgmentDay? All of them, or maybe not?”
I can have an opinion about that, but is it relevant?
I have two opinions – what should and what shall happen. Those two might be a little different.